carlos11 (2015-05-14 22:21:48)

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SomeLuigi, tell the CM that you don't mind the use of the D3000 beyond its intended purpose.

You provided forum moderators with a tool to ban and I am making use of it when absolutely necessary.

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Here is my response to Drake's stance on the matter.

Drake, I'm going to have to appeal to that ruling due to its irrationality.

First of all, it cannot be proven that I ever abused the D3000 and, given this, it cannot be said that continued use of the D3000 as I utilize it is abuse, therefore there is no grounds on which you can justify a demotion or a threat to demote.

As was previously stated by Lani, SL has never had a problem with moderators occasionally stepping outside of their jurisdiction to moderate if it was necessary. Based on this principle, you need to accept that sometimes such intervention is necessary and is the optimal course of action. To prohibit such cooperative moderation between staff members across different parts of the website can only be seen as a conscious attempt to inhibit the efficiency of the moderating system. I remind you, if you are not with me, you are with them. If you are not on the side of those who enforce the rules, you are on the side of those who break them.

Reconsider your decision.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-05-14 22:38:59

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JaronTheFireCat (2015-05-14 23:14:10)

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Carlos, I believe you were in your right mind to ban a user with the D3000, you didn't mean to cause a controversy. Most everyone, especially those who actually oppose think that this was your wrongdoing. Those people are not only pressing the D3000 subject against you, but they are gathering information that has no use in their goal to demote you.

But, however, I also think that stepping outside of your area of jurisdiction wasn't the best choice. This is how this entire controversy arose.

I believe a demotion is unjustified, at least for you, but you should've stayed in your jurisdiction area. In the forums, you are part of the authority; in the chatrooms, you are nothing more than a normal user. Normal users report those who need to be reported to the chatroom moderators. You are not a chatroom moderator, so you simply do not ban within the current situation in the chatrooms.

And you just can't tell SL to side with you against the CM. This is not his problem, it's more of yours. Arguing with Drake is only worsening the situation, as it is.

And before I am accused of taking sides, I will just let you know that I am not taking anyone's side; no chat or forum moderator, or even a CM. Carlos, you are a wonderful moderator, and you should stick to moderating the forums and not the chats. You are giving even more a reason for people to side against you.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-05-14 23:22:33

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carlos11 (2015-05-14 23:38:59)

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I disagree. I'm not a normal user on any part of the website. When I moderated outside of the forums, I was not some vigilante seeking to punish people as I see fit. I'm still a moderator, and what I did was step up and fill in for the people who were not present by doing what they would have done, had they been present in the first place. If anything, this shows my dedication to website and is a sign of responsibility.

I believe the problem here lies in the perceived divide between the different types of moderators. If someone is part of the Plaza staff, they are staff members, period. It doesn't matter what position they hold. If a chat moderator is using the forums and stumbles upon hardcore pornography (this is the type of offense where I would use the D3000 in the chats, in case you didn't know how serious something would have to be to make me consider taking action), walking away and leaving this situation to be dealt with by someone else is not the right thing to do. What they should do is ban the user immediately for a fair amount of time. In fact, in this scenario, a chat mod would have to ban the user anyway since in this case the D3000 cannot be used. This is because if the offender is someone who frequents the forums, the deletion of all of his/her content is not justified.

These type of situations are not likely to happen at all. However, they are possible. I know it is possible, because it is the reason why we're discussing this now- it happened to me in the chatrooms. In these rare cases, the decisions moderators undertake must be respected and not opposed.

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Nutsy (2015-05-14 23:53:43)

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Forum mods should just be able to ban.

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Lani (2015-05-14 23:54:05)

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I've banned forum spammers before (as a chat moderator) when no forum mods were on to deal with it....no one has ever complained about that.

The basic rules don't really differ much between the forums and chats...if you trust someone with forum moderating, in theory you should trust them with profile and chat moderating as well. If an alternative banning tool was available for forum mods, there would really be no problem with Carlos stepping out of his field to ban people cybering or sharing illegal content in the chats.

Maybe global moderating should be considered...if you're promoted as a moderator, you're promoted to moderate all sections of the site. Just a thought....we might avoid drama like this, and more thought might be put into exactly who is promoted.

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DrakeJericho (2015-05-15 00:00:57)

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What Jaron said.

I also approve the global moderator suggestion.

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JaronTheFireCat (2015-05-15 00:30:01)

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@carlos11 Nowhere in my previous post did I say "Carlos is nothing but a vigilante seeking to punish people as he sees fit." And like I said before, arguing just makes this situation even worse. You are doing nothing but typing your reputation out until it has been scattered into little, tiny, bite-sized peices. The more you sit and simply let your reputation disintegrate, the more the other users are going to side against you. And I am very well aware that you are trying to be the responsible one. But, you were given specific responsibilities to carry out.

Let's play school for a bit. Teachers are staff, janitors are staff. Have you ever heard of a janitor standing up and teaching the class, or a teacher cleaning a school restroom? No. These two individuals have different positions, and as it is their job, they have to perform well in that position as they were taught to. The teacher has permission from the board to teach, and the janitor was given permission to clean a school. Do you know what happens when they refuse to do their given permissions and carry out orders given to them? They get the slip. You were given permissions seperate to a chatroom moderator by Drake, and he is the board. You were given permission to moderate the forums, not the chatrooms.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-05-15 00:34:47

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carlos11 (2015-05-15 00:51:00)

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Jaron, I appreciate the concern, but my reputation is not at stake here. I don't see how you would think my image is negatively affected in any way by my actions here. I've remained cool-headed and logical the entire time. You're misunderstanding the situation. Furthermore, discussion of important matters is actually very healthy. Don't be afraid of "arguing".

Moreover, I'm afraid your comparison is not an accurate representation of the situation. Rather than present to you an equally confounding metaphor for the situation, allow me to just explain things straightforwardly. Bottom line is this: I am a respected moderator that has a strong understanding of the rules and who has proven his worth. The same can be said of Lani. We have both "stepped over our boundaries" (as you put it) in the past. This is not a problem because we are trustworthy. Lani is not a teacher and I am not a janitor, or vice-versa.

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carlos11 (2015-05-15 00:59:10)

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That's a funny joke. Hope you're not serious, though. For the most part we're all very chill here.

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BirdJesus (2015-05-15 01:10:44)

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Carlos has ESP.

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JaronTheFireCat (2015-05-15 01:11:16)

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I couldn't come up with a great metaphor, okay?

I want you to continue to be a moderator. Aside from the occasional rude comments or the joking about other users, you seem to be dedicated to your job, and you shall continue until your heart fulfills its undying wishes. But there has been way too much uproar about the misuse of the D3000, and I'm trying my hardest to stop it. You should be more concerned about the damage your image is taking. The point I was trying to get at with the metaphor was that you shouldn't go against the real authority's commands.

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Leviathan (2015-05-15 01:12:24)

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Carlos's reputation is already so horrible. Not sure how he ccould degrade himself anymore at this point.

He seriously believes it is okay to permanently ban and delete every forum post of a user in a section he doesn't have authority over.

This guy.

At least without raging and D3000ing everybody.

More line breaks please.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-05-15 01:14:33

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JaronTheFireCat (2015-05-15 01:16:01)

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^ Stop it. You are the president of the "I Hate Carlos" club.

You always seem to be the one to step in and say something negative about Carlos. Can you go one forum post without the topic being all about your direct feelings towards Carlos?

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-05-15 01:16:39

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JaronTheFireCat (2015-05-15 01:20:14)

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^ I've been wasting 3 forum posts trying to explain that this was settled.

Lani's suggestion might come with many unforeseen flaws, but it's all about trial-and-error, right?

And, CL3M?

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-05-15 01:22:29

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carlos11 (2015-05-15 01:25:42)

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I did say for the most part this was a calm discussion. But there are some people who have trouble remaining objective throughout the duration of the discussion and resort to mudslinging. Namely, Leviathan. That's where the "uproar" is coming from. These things cannot be helped sometimes. I have asked him to keep his temper in check and show some degree of restraint, but alas to no avail. But, you tell me, who is hurting his image here?

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